| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
cicero
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Jun 2015 : 10:11:37
|
I'm familiar Altium Designer (7years of it), but am now using EasyPC (v18). It took about a day or so to reasonably adjust to it, so I'm actually very impressed and happy with it.
That being said, considering my background, I do need some help with my transition further.
I'm used to using a block structure for multiple sheets in Altium, and having an overview sheet with the rest of the sub-circuits shown in block fashion, with block ports and specifying their direction then linking them inside the sub schematic. Power rails are global, so those dont need to be wired in a port fashion - only signal nets.
From my understanding of EPC, all sheets and nets are global, so there's almost no need to use blocks generally. I have recently done a design with blocks in EPC, but it felt horrible, and not intuitive in terms of adding/renaming ports like I'm used to. Also the block symbols look horrible, and take a lot of effort to customise with fills and whatnot.
My feeling is that blocks are not considered best practise for EPC. So I should just use multiple sheets without them. If I do that, whats the best way to give some indication that a net is used on another sheet? Is the only way to put some text there and label it as such? |
Edited by - cicero on 26 Jun 2015 10:21:20 |
|
|
cicero
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2015 : 14:19:22
|
I don't use the hierarchy feature at all. I always use multiple schematic sheets and find this fine and neat.
However there does seem to be no way of automatically creating source/destination labels on nets that connect between schematic sheets unless someone else knows different.
Iain |
 |
|
|
cicero
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2015 : 08:56:15
|
Thanks for the reply Iain.
So you just label a net as usual, across multiple sheets. I'll just use that method then. |
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2015 : 09:20:29
|
A net can be set to show its name ... i.e SCLK ..... so all I do is simply
display the net name at the end of a connection and thats it .... there is no way to automatically include the destination page/s for that net on other pages unless you do this manually, by simply adding the appropriate text.
Iain
|
|
|
|
rvpilot
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2015 : 13:00:39
|
In the same way you can assign name or pin number to a schematic pad, you can assign net and sheet (plus a few others). I've modified my TO and FROM discrete library symbol, so when you connect it to a net, it shows net name (without having to right-click and show net name) plus it shows the sheets that net is also used on !
There is reference to it in the "Easy-PC V16.0 Supplement.pdf" (downloadable on the Easy-PC site) ... Page 30.
See http://www.numberone.com/downloads/manuals/V16-Supplement.pdf
So it is doable Iain ! |
Edited by - rvpilot on 02 Jul 2015 13:12:09 |
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2015 : 13:06:53
|
I must have a look at that .... you learn something new every day !
Cheers
Iain
Just gave that a go, brilliant, you live and learn !!!
|
Edited by - Iain Wilkie on 02 Jul 2015 13:17:16 |
|
|
|
rvpilot
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2015 : 13:52:57
|
 I must admit, I only found it by accident ! |
|
|
|
cicero
United Kingdom
26 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jul 2015 : 16:25:54
|
| Ah, thats very handy, appreciate that rvpilot. |
|
|
|
edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2015 : 12:24:10
|
I think that the main issue here is that the connectivity of the various "TO" and "FROM" symbols is not checked in EPC.
For example, if we have a uP (on one schematic page) and two or more SPI memory chips (on another schematic page) We would have a signal called SPI_SCK connecting the memory chips SCK lines together and a "FROM" symbol to indicate that this signal is generated elsewhere in the design. However, if the uP page doesn't have a named SPI_SCK signal (with or without a "TO" symbol) the error will not get picked up by the Schematic DRC even though there is a "floating" FROM symbol in the design.
Altium and other top end packages will check for matching "TO" and "FROM" mis-matches by nature of their hierachical block design philosophy. |
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2015 : 09:17:03
|
To be fair Ed, that scenario is true for any net that a designer has missed in a design even on a single schematic.
Iain
|
|
|
|
edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2015 : 13:51:11
|
Sorry to disagree Iain.
Altium (and other top end CAD packages) hierachical block design will check for matching "TOs" and "FROMs" symbols. That way, a "floating" or mismatched "TO" or "FROM" will be picked up ensuring that the Designer has not "missed" a net that should exist on the same or another schematic page.
EPC only checks for a net that doesn't join two or more component pins.
....unless someone can advise to the contrary? |
|
|
|
John Baraclough
United Kingdom
129 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2015 : 16:38:16
|
But you're comparing apples with oranges! The Altium Designer annual maintenance charge is in the region of $7,000 and the annual upgrade of Easy PC is £59 if you get in early, so it's hardly a fair comparison.
The Easy PC workspace is large enough to contain at least 16 A4 sheets and that alone is a considerable design by anyone's standards. If you go down the hierarchy route you can add even more sheets. It will also find single-pin nets as described in Ed's post above.
If you need all the bells and whistles of a top-end package like Altium or OrCad, then go and pay the money. Otherwise you need to remember that Easy PC is very simple to use, perfectly capable for most schematic design and PCB layout jobs and most of all very reasonably priced.
-------------------------------------------------------
Birthdays are good for you: the more you have, the longer you live ... and I've had lots of them so I should know! |
Edited by - John Baraclough on 13 Jul 2015 16:40:07 |
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2015 : 19:18:26
|
Agree with John, but Ed, if you forget to connect a net to a pin, how the hell would EPC tell you otherwise ?
Iain |
|
|
|
edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2015 : 10:36:12
|
I agree that we're comparing apples and oranges, and in my defence I have have always emphasised "other top end packages" to make this perfectly clear. However, this is exactly the situation that Cicero was explaining in his original thread titled "Multiple sheets vs Block symbols help" when using EPC for the first time having had considerable hands-on experience with Altium.
I am merely trying to highlight a subtle difference Cicero and others who have experience in other "top end packages" may encounter when using EPC, -especially in the context of the original post.
In particular, the false assumption that he may have that "TO" and "FROM" symbols in EPC have "HIERACHICAL", "INTRA" or "INTER" page and directional properties and that these must correlate to ensure an error free DRC. (That way Iain, a floating TO/FROM or an incompleted net is picked up by the DRC).
Use of "TO" and "FROM" schematic symbols in EPC is optional, their use can make the schematic look somewhat better, but they add nothing to the signal integrity of the design. |
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2015 : 12:20:02
|
Yes ... But if you use the property as described by RVPILOT yo can easily see if you have missed a connection onto another sheet as that sheet name would be missing !
Iain |
|
|
|
edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2015 : 12:24:52
|
My point is that the DRC would not pick up the error.
That's the idea of a DRC, - you don't have to rely on a manual/visual check!
|
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2015 : 12:55:18
|
But there is no way it can pick it up cause it doesn't know .... It's you the designer that forgot the net so that's why it doesn't appear in the to/from list. The tool has no way of telling a net is missing unless you tell it !
Iain |
|
|
|
edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2015 : 15:21:03
|
Iain, I'm sorry I can't explain my point any clearer.
A floating TO/FROM symbol could be picked up as they are in high end CAD systems.
Lets' call it a day! |
|
|
|
Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2015 : 15:42:10
|
Ed, If you have a floating To/From termination its floating cause you gave it a sheet/net to connect to but that net doesn't exist on the specific sheet ... so yes this can be checked in DRC, thats fine
However if you had forget to add the net/sheet to the To/From properties then the DRC will fall down, just in the same way if you forget to add the net in the destination sheet in EPC. Both forms require the information to be entered by the designer in one form or another ... if its forgotten then there is a problem. So what I am trying to say is one system is really no better than the other depending on what information is missing.
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Multiple sheets vs Block symbols help