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 Finding a rogue tool size
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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  08:51:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After generating a drill plot report, I find that I have one tool T001 of size 0.025 inches (Count = 1) listed under Output as 'Unplated'.

I haven't got any slots or unplated holes that I have deliberately included in my design. Is this some sort of milling tool for the board outline (I'm unsure how board outline is handled by the Gerber files)? How can I locate the hole position if it is a rogue hole?

Thank you

edrees

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  09:05:12  Show Profile  Visit edrees's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most likely!
Goto Output=>Plotting & Printing =>Options =>NC Drill
In the upper middle section find Minimum Routing Tool Size, and this will be your 25 thou drill.

In your Plotting & Printing Dialogue, the [Board Outline] box will have been set under the Layers tab. Or under Drill Data [Through Hole] Settings Tab bottom window,=> Boards => Plated/Unplated Board Outlines.

If you untick all these options the 25thou drill should disappear!


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Iain Wilkie

United Kingdom
901 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  09:07:27  Show Profile  Visit Iain Wilkie's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Go Back to the PCB editor. Bring up the GoTo Dockable bar. In the drop down menu on the GoTo bar choose Hole size, and then right click "Select all find items"

Note that if your highlight setting is the same colour of the pads you will not see the selected pads, in which case go to View/Display/Settings and highlights and change the "Selection" colour.

Iain

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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  10:59:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you edrees and Iain Wilkie

As a result of your advice, I've learned a bit more about navigating my way through the program. That Goto dockable bar is going to be very useful. I found that 25 thou was not listed as a hole size in the Goto/Hole Size list. So following edrees' instructions I located it under Setup NC Drill. Thanks, it would have taken me a long time to find that I think..

In the past, I've never included a routing tool size in my output, just told the pcb manufacturer what the finished dimensions should be. The boards were always rectangular.

For my new two sided simple two sided pth board I was going to output top silk, top & bottom copper, and top & bottom resist. I guess I'll have to add 'Dimensions' layer to the output as the board has a few simple cutouts at its corners.

Thanks again to you both.
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edrees

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  11:10:34  Show Profile  Visit edrees's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
I guess I'll have to add 'Dimensions' layer to the output as the board has a few simple cutouts at its corners.


Not 100% necessary if you include the Plated/Unplated outlines in your other plots. However, I always include a "Dimensions" Layer (Dimensions + Top copper (or Top Resist) superimposed) and includes such items as the Layer Stack & Drill Table, along with Copyright messages, Revision No. etc etc. to minimise the chance or manufacturing errors.
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Iain Wilkie

United Kingdom
901 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  11:11:42  Show Profile  Visit Iain Wilkie's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No need for a dimensions layer if the board outline follows all your cut-outs externally as well as internally.

Iain
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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  11:43:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edrees

quote:
I guess I'll have to add 'Dimensions' layer to the output as the board has a few simple cutouts at its corners.


Not 100% necessary if you include the Plated/Unplated outlines in your other plots.



How do I do that, please? In the past, I just used to mark the corner locations with a copper "crosshair". But that was just for rectangular boards. On this new one, I have a cutout in each corner. Do you mean you draw the outline of your board with a thin copper track on, say, the top copper layer? The manufacturer then uses that track as a guideline for the board outline?
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Iain Wilkie

United Kingdom
901 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  12:00:30  Show Profile  Visit Iain Wilkie's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Add/Board and then select Rectangle (you can edit the corners) or any other outline such as Shape etc.

Iain
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edrees

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  12:44:07  Show Profile  Visit edrees's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Looks like you already had the Outline in your plots as you had a "mysterious" 25thou drill (router) producing your outline. This would have followed your pcb Outline.

quote:
In your Plotting & Printing Dialogue, the [Board Outline] box will have been set under the Layers tab. Or under Drill Data [Through Hole] Settings Tab bottom window,=> Boards => Plated/Unplated Board Outlines.


Do you have a green (default) outline to your pcb (in the pcb editor)? If not do as Iain suggests and add a pcb (7th icon down).


Edited by - edrees on 28 Aug 2018 12:48:14
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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  15:48:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edrees
Do you have a green (default) outline to your pcb (in the pcb editor)?



Yes, fortunately I have a green outline on the 'Dimensions' layer for the following reason: To speed up my learning process, I opened one of the existing pth Tutorial pcb files. I edited the outline to match my new board, then deleted all the components and tracks in the tutorial before saving as my new filename. Then I started adding my own components and tracks.

But when I try a test output of the Gerber files, EasyPC comes up with a warning "None of the plots include the board outline."

I guess my confusion is: how do I pass information about the size and shape of the board to the manufacturer? Do I have to redraw the outline on one of the copper tracks (or silk screen) so that the manufacturer has a visible reference line to cut the board to the desired size/shape?
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edrees

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  16:11:57  Show Profile  Visit edrees's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
.....with a warning "None of the plots include the board outline."


Output=>Plotting & Printing =>Layers
Tick the [Board Outline] box on all your Gerber files.
Sorry, set it as "Y" instead of "N"


Edited by - edrees on 28 Aug 2018 16:13:13
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edrees

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  16:14:48  Show Profile  Visit edrees's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edrees

[quote].....with a warning "None of the plots include the board outline."


Output=>Plotting & Printing =>Layers
Tick the [Board Outline] box on all your Gerber files.
Sorry, set it as "Y" instead of "N"
Then Settings tab, tick the Plated & Unplated Board Outline boxes.


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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 28 Aug 2018 :  16:35:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edrees

quote:
.....with a warning "None of the plots include the board outline."


Output=>Plotting & Printing =>Layers
Tick the [Board Outline] box on all your Gerber files.
Sorry, set it as "Y" instead of "N"





Thank you. After reading your answer, I scoured the manual and found a related note on page 266. I would have never found it without your prompt. Appreciate it.
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edrees

United Kingdom
578 Posts

Posted - 29 Aug 2018 :  09:40:12  Show Profile  Visit edrees's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Although you received a warning that none of your (Gerber) plots contained a Board Outline, your Excellon files would still have routed out the correct pcb outline shape for you, - assuming your pcb design had a PCB outline.

Suggest you experiment with the File=>Print (Output to PDF) options available to better understand what is going on. You can see the effect of adding the [Board Outline] superimposed on any/all the other layers. It will also show you the effect of adding a board outline in silk screen (or any other layer for that matter) to your design and whether or not you already have a [Board Outline].

Finally import your Gerber outputs into a 3rd party (many are free) Gerber viewer (for additional confidence factor) before shipping them to your pcb manufacturer.


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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 03 Sep 2018 :  15:34:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edrees

Although you received a warning that none of your (Gerber) plots contained a Board Outline, your Excellon files would still have routed out the correct pcb outline shape for you, - assuming your pcb design had a PCB outline.

Suggest you experiment with the File=>Print (Output to PDF) options available to better understand what is going on. You can see the effect of adding the [Board Outline] superimposed on any/all the other layers. It will also show you the effect of adding a board outline in silk screen (or any other layer for that matter) to your design and whether or not you already have a [Board Outline].

Finally import your Gerber outputs into a 3rd party (many are free) Gerber viewer (for additional confidence factor) before shipping them to your pcb manufacturer.



Thanks very much, edrees, I'll follow that excellent advice. Think I will draw the outline with a thin copper trace on the bottom layer. That way, the manufacturer will have a visual cue.

I'll also print out pdf files as you suggest and make sure the pcb fits in the enclosure!
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DB17

25 Posts

Posted - 07 Sep 2018 :  14:59:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by edrees

quote:
Originally posted by edrees

[quote].....with a warning "None of the plots include the board outline."


Output=>Plotting & Printing =>Layers
Tick the [Board Outline] box on all your Gerber files.
Sorry, set it as "Y" instead of "N"
Then Settings tab, tick the Plated & Unplated Board Outline boxes.




Edrees, I have finished my first board design using v21. Thanks for all you help. I found the program to be excellent (+ the security back up saved me twice )

I'm preparing the gerber files. I asked the manufacturer about board outline. He said that his customers normally mark a short thin track on the bottom layer to show where the corners of the board are. I'm guessing that, if I do this, I don't have to set outline to 'Y' on every output layer?

I intend to just check Y on the bottom copper layer only. I can see that this prints out the outline on the pdf file so should be duplicated in the gerber file.
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