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tswelectronics
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 10:22:13
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Hi all.
I came across DesignSpark PCB on the RS site. It looks very much like EasyPC but its completely free. Does anyone know the differences between the two programmes?
http://www.designspark.com/pcb
Trev |
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johnt
United Kingdom
52 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 12:29:28
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designspark is designed to sell you RS components components
eventually in competition with farnells eagle.
It has no real support (no forum just a poor quality blog
maintained by people who clearly dont really know how to use the internet judging by the amateur mistakes in design and use on the web site)
As a new product it has no support yet from manufacturers (key point) or live testing of output files. Fine for amateur hacking but no good for anything else. If you want to spend your time as an unpaid bug reporter great - if you want to design products - not so much. (come back in 5 years)
It is being developed based on feedback from a "free" release
which will encourage hobby users but probably not RS's existing clients. Their sales practice arrogance masked in "trading regulations" nonesense is going to interfere I suspect.
This is more important than it seems at first sight and probably what will relegate it to DIV2 in the end. (A simple example - a question about the poor router function was responded to by the suggestion that routing be turned up to 25-35 tries. The fact that this resulted in no exclamations of horror underlines the damage already being done to its core development. This also speaks very loudly about the competence of the core developers and project managers - assuming they even have one.)
It has no special features you can't already get for free in half a dozen other places that are tried and tested.
It all seems like a badly thought out knee jerk reaction to Farnell's
development of eagle to me.
I could say a lot more but I'll just leave it there with the final
obligatory - IMO.
john
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 15:08:29
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I agree with John,
I had a quick look at this .... the reason it was a quick look is because it seemed a completely un-professional site and intended for hobbyists. Even the site layout was enough to make me feel sick !.
I am very surprised at RS endorsing this.
Iain
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 20:02:55
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Well I never ..... I did not bother to see what the softwrae was like ... why should I ?, I have EasyPC !!.
So the next question is ... how does this differ from our EasyPC and are we now paying for something that is essentially a freebee ?
OR .... are we going to be offered something in V14 that is soooo fantastic that we will all upgrade for another year !
Moderators ...... Where are you ??????
Iain
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tswelectronics
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2010 : 21:57:51
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This was what I was trying to ask originally. It does look like EasyPC and so I am interested to know the differences considering this free version has an autorouter. Can we load our files into it, autoroute and then reload into EasyPC??
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johnt
United Kingdom
52 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2010 : 11:30:03
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tsw... I supect my comments still apply. The key difference is an untried new buggy product not being professionally developed.
(I'm glad Iain agreed - I read it back and it did seem a bit harsh...
but re-reading and checking I suspect we're about right)
I doubt it does anything but "look" like easy-pc from what I can see
but you could always download it and try. (Or ask the developers)
One difference must be the auto-router doesn't work.
Its a bad move to trade off a trusted name like easy-PC/#1.
All this can do is seriously damage the existing brand.
I'm very new tp EPC myself but before buying in I did ask around, visit a number of trade shows, draw upon 30 years electronics/business experience and try out about half a dozen other packages. EPC has a very good reputation.
This is what you really should be worried about.
If Number One wants to expand all they need do is a bit of marketing. The total absence everywhere suggests to me they aren't really interested in selling or growing.
I could probably double sales of easy-pc myself without even breaking a sweat.
I suspect you are worrying a bit too much about a "free" version of easy-PC. If it was going that way already they would have announced it as such. It would be plain stupid not to.
The look and feel of EPC is a major part of its attraction however.
So if thats the thing they ripped off - I'd be worried for the future of Number One. They need to move if they want to survive long term.
Bad decisions can be fixed as long as they aren't made personal. We all make them and move on. I suspect Number One has done so here.
As I said - dont panic - just look again in about 5 years.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2010 : 11:48:52
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Again YES ... I agree.
The worrying thing is .... I have always thought that the name EASYPC was not the best for what I think has grown into a really professional package and It would be nice for it to sound like a professional package. However haven spoken to Number One about this years ago, this needs to stay for political reasons. However now with the release of a supposed free version has just degraded the product further and I feel that that NumberOne have shot themselves in the foot ! (but maybe thats what they intended to do ?)
Still to response from Number One on this I note .... I think we all await their reply ..............................
Iain |
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jardern
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jul 2010 : 13:17:06
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I believe Number One has done something like this already in the US as well, although this is tied to a PCB house:
http://www.4pcb.com/free-pcb-layout-software/
This is clearly a version of Easy-PC, with access to an seemingly enormous online library. I thought someone had mentioned it here before. |
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tswelectronics
United Kingdom
88 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2010 : 13:19:29
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Hi all.
I dont remember saying I was worried. I was just interested to know what the differences are. I did not want to install it with EasyPC already on my system in case it breaks something.
That is an interesting link jarden gave. Also, EasyPC is a cut down version of Pulsonix?
I think EasyPC would really benefit from an online community parts library. I wish they would put some time and effort into it. I wonder how much work it would take? I think that would be the best form of advertising.
Trev
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 08 Jul 2010 : 16:41:49
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Trev,
I have downloaded it and it is EasyPC .... looks slightly different on some screens and exactly the same on others. I am not sure what the major differencies are yet (don't really have the time to play about with it).
I agree about the libraries BUT I think they need to get the library structure sorted out first as I think it needs serious re-think
See topic here http://www.numberone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=420
Iain |
Edited by - Iain Wilkie on 08 Jul 2010 16:42:27 |
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johnt
United Kingdom
52 Posts |
Posted - 09 Jul 2010 : 12:06:43
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fair points tsw... sorry about assumptions.
Suddenly some other things make more sense to me... and about
that perhaps I'm not so happy. I'm in wait and see mode right now.
As far as designspark is concerned - I've already seen enough of its development process to never go near it.
I must admit Iain - I very nearly didnt download the EasyPC demo based on the name alone (I was very bored with trying out very poor low cost and amateur stuff when I first found EPC)
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TonyS
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2010 : 22:48:47
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I also found out about Easy PC (terrible name!) the "hard way" while quickly trying to find a "value" priced schematic capture for the small company I started working for.
I tried Dip Trace and Eagle and really did not like either of them. I then tried PCB Artist from Advanced Circuits (4pcb.com) and really liked it. Somewhere in the PCB Artist documentation I ran across a reference to Easy PC (or maybe it was a reference to WestDev) and found out that PCB Artist is a sub-set of the Easy PC product (probably the same for DesignSpark).
We did end up purchasing Easy PC as we needed to generate Gerbers and the PCB Artist version does not do this (you can get project Gerbers after you place an initial PCB order with Advance Circuits). We purchased Easy PC from Advanced Circuits as they are a US distributor for both Easy PC and Pulsonix and since we did buy from them, they converted the symbols and schematics that I had done in PCB Artist into Easy PC formats.
I wish that there was some way of knowing what all the differences are between Easy PC, PCB Artist, and DesignSpark.
Also, I really think that NumberOne - WestDev could do a better job of promoting Easy PC (instead of the "hard way" of finding out about it). So far I have been very happy with it and feel that it is the best "value" package currently available. |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2010 : 08:43:09
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The first version of EasyPC I purchased was V3 I think.... and this was after looking at a whole batch of other layout tools to see which one I felt comfortable with.
It was to do an in house one off design so its was at that time a means to an end. However once others knew we could offer PCB layout, the orders flooded in and I have kept up to date with every version and seen the product grow into what I now see as a very professional layout tool.
But yes the name still really bugs me. When customers ask what tool you use, I always feel a bit embarressed saying EasyPC and then trying to justify that by explaining how good it really is.
The IPC footprint generation tool list about every layout tool that it will export to, but EasyPC is not there. I have to agree that I think Number One could do better in promoting the product and show the world they have a top of the range product that can knock spots of its competators. Re-launched with a good name change to promote this would pay dividends I am sure.
As for the Designspark tool, as I have already mentioned I think this has de-valued EasyPC and has under-mined their current customers loyalty.
I also note that no one from NumberOne has posted any comments on this thread ....... So come on NumberOne ... lets hear your position in all this
Iain
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buckeyes1997
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jul 2010 : 16:09:31
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| Why hasnt anyone from Number One Systems replied to this thread? Loyal customers want a straight answer about what is going on here? |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
107 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2010 : 10:34:04
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Interesting. Am I correct in thinking there is also a product family connection with Pulsonix and Easy PC? Is it file compatible?
I couldn't see any pricing on the website, so am curious as to the product strategy here, and especially in the light of this new product.
I like Easy PC and my personal component library is a valuable asset. It would discourage me moving to another product, but the Farnell-Eagle connection looks interesting.
IMO the lack of a proper component database, or at least much more component information being stored in the libraries is the biggest omission in Easy PC.
I would like to be able to reference a supplier part number (e.g RS/Farnell), and possibly a mfg part number to the basic component description. That way I could then create useful BOM's and avoid mistakes specifying / ordering parts.
Sorry, this post turned out longer than I had originally intended :)
John |
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remi
United Kingdom
101 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 13:05:01
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I agree with the fact that the way the library is managed in Easy PC is the biggest weakness of the software...
The feedback has been given many times but EasyPC does not seem to care or do anything about it
We will stay in the stone age of component library forever  |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2010 : 17:17:08
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Remi ..... perhaps not so !
I am sure that if we all put forward out feelings on the library structure on the forum, we just may be able to get the programmers to see the light .... I had already started a thread on this at
http://www.numberone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=420
If we could get that particular thread to grow (or maybe start a new one along the lines of a petition) then I am sure we could get the message over.
Iain
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pedro444
United Kingdom
25 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 16:52:04
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Perhaps we need a vote or referendum on a new name.
A few suggestions:-
EasyPCBBuilder (Rubbish)
EasyPeasyPC (Even worse rubbish)
AllInOnePCB (Sounds like some PCB hardware)
NumberOnePCB (Could be a bit better)
I don't really have a clue |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 19:02:04
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I know the feeling
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Edited by - Iain Wilkie on 02 Aug 2010 19:05:40 |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1010 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2010 : 19:04:52
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quote:
Originally posted by jlawton
Interesting. Am I correct in thinking there is also a product family connection with Pulsonix and Easy PC? Is it file compatible?
I couldn't see any pricing on the website, so am curious as to the product strategy here, and especially in the light of this new product.
I like Easy PC and my personal component library is a valuable asset. It would discourage me moving to another product, but the Farnell-Eagle connection looks interesting.
IMO the lack of a proper component database, or at least much more component information being stored in the libraries is the biggest omission in Easy PC.
I would like to be able to reference a supplier part number (e.g RS/Farnell), and possibly a mfg part number to the basic component description. That way I could then create useful BOM's and avoid mistakes specifying / ordering parts.
Sorry, this post turned out longer than I had originally intended :)
John
Heres the product line up as I see it.....
Top of the range - Pulsonix
Midrange - EasyPC
Basic - Designspark
Tied to vendor - PCB Artist
These are all variation of the same product.
You can import EasyPC into Pulsonix but one of Pulsonixs strengths is its import capabilities.
The library structure for EasyPC is all wrong and I I for one am trying to drive a change here. A thread has already started regarding this. See here .. http://www.numberone.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=420
As for part numbers and order codes ... well you can already do this in EasyPC using values.
Iain
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Edited by - Iain Wilkie on 02 Aug 2010 20:02:20 |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
107 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2010 : 18:16:29
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You misunderstand my point Ian, I want the vendor part number in a database, I don't want to have to add it every time I create a schematic. If I have a component in the library, I need to know exectly what it is, and where it comes from.
John |
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Topic |
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DesignSpark and EasyPC differences