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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 15 Jan 2016 :  13:49:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

If possible, can Easy-PC be migrated to Linux OS as an alternative operating system?

Windows 7 support by Easy-PC/Number One ends in 2017.

The aggressive approach by Microsoft to move people to Windows 10, is a concern since new laptops and desktop PC's will not have the requisite drivers for older versions of Windows such as Windows 8.0/8.1.

If Microsoft move to a Software as a Service (SaaS), where people are required to make monthly subscriptions to ensure continued use of the OS, then many people will not be happy with this approach.

In addition, the telemetry collected, and personal information, which can be sold on to advertisers by Microsoft means that the OS ceases to be owned by oneself, and ones personal information and work will be known by unknown 3rd parties.

Therefore, is Number One planning an alternative parallel development of Easy-PC for a Linux or Mac based OS, to circumvent the impending costs associated with Windows 10?

Even if the version for Linux/Mac is a reduced version with a roadmap to be equivalent to the Windows version in a few years time, would be acceptable.

Is this achievable?

Are there any others considering the move from Windows to Linux/Mac?

Regards,

Shadders.

AndyB

United Kingdom
207 Posts

Posted - 25 Jan 2016 :  21:22:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Try Virtualbox.
You could emulate windows and run EasyPc on that.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2016 :  22:39:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by AndyB

Try Virtualbox.
You could emulate windows and run EasyPc on that.



Hi AndyB,

Thanks - will look into that. Preferred option is native OS, just in case Windows 10 in a virtual environment has issues.

Regards,

Shadders.
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 17 Feb 2016 :  17:39:18  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have been running EZ-PC for some time using Wine on Linux, currently Kubuntu 14.04 LTS.
It seems more stable than under Win7 in Virtualbox. The only annoying issue is with the display of fonts such as Arial on the pcb layout and the resulting Gerber files.



John
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 03 Mar 2016 :  16:11:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by jlawton

I have been running EZ-PC for some time using Wine on Linux, currently Kubuntu 14.04 LTS.
It seems more stable than under Win7 in Virtualbox. The only annoying issue is with the display of fonts such as Arial on the pcb layout and the resulting Gerber files.



John


Hi John,

Thanks. I have a laptop I purchased last year which I have been meaning to install a new hard disk and use Linux only on it. Linux Format have some tutorials recently too, which will help.

I want to dual boot too, and again, this months Linux Format has a good article.

Regards,

Shadders.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  12:30:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

To raise this again, Easy-PC on Linux :-

If Microsoft change Windows 10 applications deployment such that they MUST be provided by UWP which has a 30% tax (payable to Microsoft), will Number One be considering providing Easy-PC on Linux in the future?

Thanks and regards,

Shadders.
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DavidM

United Kingdom
456 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  13:18:53  Show Profile  Visit DavidM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
We certainly understand the feeling that Microsoft are managing to charge us more just to stay inside the supported system 'envelope', which is why we run our support for each version of Windows for years after Microsoft have officially withdrawn their mainline support. We realise that this is not the whole picture, as you will probably still have to replace your edition of Windows at some point, but we feel that it does at least help you stick with what you know rather than being forced to move ever onwards as Microsoft release each new version.

Turning now to the specific question of providing a Linux edition, with the way the application is built using both the Windows API and the Microsoft MFC framework, and bearing in mind the huge amount of source code we already have in the product, re-engineering this to use a different framework on a different platform would be an enormous task for us to undertake.

Even assuming that this task is indeed technically feasible, it would come at a significant cost in terms of our development time, probably many man-months of work just to get a new edition of a product that is no further on in terms of features than it is now, and one that may even have to compromise in some areas just to achieve a solution that works on both platforms.

Assuming we took the plunge and committed to doing that work, who is going to bear the cost? Unless the resulting ported application greatly increased our user base (which is hard to see happening in these days of a fairly saturated EDA market) and thus allowed us to recoup the cost from new sales, the hammer would surely fall on existing users. Asking those users who are continuing to work quite happily in the Windows environment to bear the cost for re-engineering onto a platform they are not using would hardly seem fair. This leaves the situation where we might have to sell a "cross-grade" to a Linux version at a large differential just to recoup at least some of the development costs. I find it hard to imagine that there would be anything like enough of those users to cover even a fraction of the development outlay.

Unless someone can suggest a magic bullet, sadly I think there is no easy way out of this one. With hindsight we may have done things differently, but in terms of how the application is built we are where we are. There doesn't seem to be any way around this that stacks up financially, even setting aside any technical issues in actually porting to another platform.

David.


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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  13:47:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi David,

Thanks for the prompt reply. I understand that this would be an onerous and costly task. Whether Mono could be of use to rapidly develop is one option, but again, as you have stated, costs would have to be incurred and as such, existing users would be disadvantaged for minimal gain for all parties.

Whether RS could support and fund in part for their requirements for Designspark, to compete with Eagle, may be an avenue for thrid party funding?

Regards,

Shadders.
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DavidM

United Kingdom
456 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  13:56:03  Show Profile  Visit DavidM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
All the frameworks I've looked at incur some amount of re-engineering, even to the extent that some people are almost advocating starting again from scratch using their current code base as reference material, but we are still keeping an open mind to what possibilities (financial, technical or whatever) might show up in the future.

David.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 27 May 2016 :  14:40:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks David,

Regards,

Shadders.
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 08 Jul 2016 :  13:39:06  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'd like you to consider supporting the use of EPC under Wine. Don't forget Wine runs on Macs too, and Macs are more popular now. You could investigate supporting use under Codeweavers Crossover on Mac/Linux.

There may be tweaks to your code that would make the package run better. Having said that, in my experience it runs very well with the exception of some font handling issues I've mentioned before.

John

John
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 11 Jul 2016 :  11:15:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi John,

I second this request, if we cannot have a native code application, then running the program under WINE would be the next best thing.

Regards,

Shadders.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 21 Jul 2016 :  17:31:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Just to bump this one to see if Number One will reply as to whether they can implement the changes to ensure WINE can run the program ?

Thanks and regards,

Richard.
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davep

United Kingdom
98 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2016 :  22:56:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just to add another voice to getting a Linux version.
Have been running Win 10 for about a month on main PC after running it on a secondary PC for nearly a year.
Unplanned & unexpected update on main PC (after successful anniversary update) caused reboot loop. Only way out was 'reset' which trashed ALL programs including Easy-PC - lost v19. Lost 3 days trying to fix Win 10 before reverting to full install of Win 7. Now running Easy-PC v20 OK.
I don't want unplanned updates from Microsoft. I have now decided to switch to Linux as next OS ( I think I have about three years to switch everything). Thus the comments here.
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Iain Wilkie

United Kingdom
960 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2016 :  18:56:44  Show Profile  Visit Iain Wilkie's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not for the same problem, but I too have have to revert back Win 7 from Win 10. Nearly trashed my main PC with the free upgrade. Took me hours to sort it out. Confidence level is zero for Win 10

Iain
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 24 Aug 2016 :  17:03:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I have been able to establish that all software i wish to run (Mathematica, Matlab, SDR drivers for an RTL-SDR Device), is available on Linux.

So, if Easy-PC was able to run under WINE, this would be very helpful.

Thanks and regards,

Shadders.
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  15:13:28  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
As I have said, it DOES ALREADY run under Wine, but No.1 could consider SUPPORTING this without re-writing their code, i.e. they might be able to fix any small issues/niggles we have rather than saying 'unsupported'.
John

John
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DavidM

United Kingdom
456 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  15:38:13  Show Profile  Visit DavidM's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not saying we're going to, but if we tested Easy-PC on WINE on Ubuntu, say, and told people "here it is, it works", then what about the next person who decides they have to run on Fedora instead? Does WINE really insulate us from the vagaries of a particular Linux distro? And WINE too can come in different versions, presumably each new one of those would require another round of testing.

I just can't help this nagging feeling that we'd just end up with a different set of platform-dependent issues, but maybe that's just me being cynical!

David
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 09 Nov 2016 :  16:06:04  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
True, but as Windows 10 is such a (now) uncontrollable moving target, you might find supporting Wine is less of a problem than you've got already :)

It may be worth you testing on a limited number of Linux platforms, for instance I use a LTS version of Kubuntu so I only get major changes every 4 years, (assuming I then upgrade) which in practice has been pretty stable as things go.

John

John
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 10 Nov 2016 :  10:37:25  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I've just looked at Wine HQ. FYI, the latest test results are for V19 and list a few usability bugs:
https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=33139


John
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 15 Nov 2016 :  11:03:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I agree, that if one were to support a single flavour of Linux with long term support, then this would be beneficial.

I am assuming that supporting WINE is much less onerous than any other option with regards to Linux.

Regards,

Shadders.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 23 Jan 2017 :  23:10:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

In checking for Linux based CAD packages, it seems that Eagle is moving to a subscription model, whereby, once you stop paying for a subscription, you CANNOT use the software.

Can it be confirmed that Easy-PC will not be migrating to such a model? Thanks.

In addition, is there any news on wine support, since, I expect some Eagle users will be a bit unhappy with the subscription based approach.

Thanks and regards,

Shadders.
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ty.stephens

United Kingdom
3 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2017 :  10:17:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all.

I can confirm we have no plans to alter the licensing model for Easy-PC. If you have paid for the software, you have bought a perpetual license to carry on using it for as long as you wish.

As for the support of Linux, as has already been stated by David earlier in this Forum, this would take a significant development investment from us which would have a knock-on effect on new features moving forward, this is not to say we are not considering it, far from it, but we want to manage the evolution and upkeep of Easy-PC as best as our development resources allow at this time.

Hope that clarifies the issue for now.

All the best.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2017 :  10:59:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Ty,

Thanks for clarifying.

For Linux, i understand that building for Linux is not appropriate, but Wine is an alternative.

The following is a link to using Wine with DesignSpark :

https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213438565-How-to-install-DesignSpark-PCB-on-Linux-with-Wine-

The above requires that you install "playonlinux" binary.

This may be helpful to others - not tested yet - but Wine does have a problem with Design Rules Check aspect of Easy-PC.

Regards,

Shadders.
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2017 :  13:03:40  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by shadders
This may be helpful to others - not tested yet - but Wine does have a problem with Design Rules Check aspect of Easy-PC.


What DRC issue is that? I've experienced slow screen redraws, or is it something else?

BTW, I've not needed PlayonLinux, but I didn't try to install under emulated Windows 10, probably as XP.

John

John
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 24 Jan 2017 :  13:14:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi John,

I have tried Windows 7 and 10, and both fail at the DRC in PCB modification. I will try Windows XP.

I installed the dll as per the design spark article, still the same issue.

Will probably use a VM if I cannot get it working, or stick with v20.

Thanks and regards,

Shadders.

Edited by - shadders on 24 Jan 2017 13:15:29
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Peter Johnson

United Kingdom
459 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  12:21:44  Show Profile  Visit Peter Johnson's Homepage  Reply with Quote
With a support hat on, we get very little detailed feedback about problems, or potential problems, using Wine. I've been aware for a number of years that some users prefer this approach. At present I'm not aware of any resources allocated to investigate issues arising from the use of Wine, but a good first move would be if we had detailed error reports about problem areas so we could potentially identify the issues involved. Without this sort of feedback from users, it's difficult to see how we can improve compatibility.

This isn't a guarantee that we can in the short term address these issues, but it will give us a much better feel for the resources required to address them (if, indeed they're not intractable).
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jlawton

United Kingdom
82 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  12:44:13  Show Profile  Visit jlawton's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi Peter,

that's fair enough.

How about setting up a separate forum topic for Wine issues?

Regards,

John

John
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 27 Jan 2017 :  18:25:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Peter,

Thanks, I have tried Windows XP/7/10 and still the same issue. I can send the error file which details the memory fault, but before that, would it be wroth yourselves stating which modules or libraries should be installed either under PlayOnLinux or standard Wine config settings.

The designspark article lists specific libraries, but I could only implement the closest libraries. I am using Wine 2.0-rc5.

Thanks and regards,

Shadders.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 31 Jan 2017 :  15:54:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

As an update to the error file i sent via e-mail to support, i completed some further testing and it seems to the be the report generation that causes the crash.

I examined the Number One directory and it may be he reports.dll that is causing the issue.

Else, all design checks work, but cannot see them on the PCB.

Help menu selection Contents also causes a crash.

Regards,

Shadders.
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shadders

United Kingdom
219 Posts

Posted - 19 Mar 2017 :  17:47:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Just to add an update regarding subscription licensing, there does seem to be some disagreement with regards to the new licence for Eagle as a subscription :

http://hackaday.com/2017/01/19/autodesk-moves-eagle-to-subscription-only-pricing/

https://forums.autodesk.com/t5/eagle-forum/new-eagle-licensing/td-p/6814846

The people on the forums are being quite blunt.

Possibly to rub salt in the wound, Circuit Studio in the pricing are now offering Circuit Studio for half price for existing Eagle users. No love lost there then.

Possibly NumberOne/Pulsonix are missing a trick here ?

Regards,

Shadders.
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