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s.dickinson
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 10:32:50
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Hello
Having had a number of years break from using EasyPC (using Eagle) I am now considering my options for the future. I previously liked using EasyPC and I have always found NumberOne to be a good straightforward company to deal with. The V20 demo looks good and following a productive discussion on the phone last week with Fiona I am sure it would meet my needs - all in all I would like to move back to using EasyPC. However, as previous people have mentioned, I do not like the direction which Microsoft are taking windows. I briefly migrated from Win7 (which I was perfectly happy with) to Win8, however having found this a total disappointment I soon ditched that and moved back to Win7. Following news of MS moving to a subscription model I now have absolutely no intension to migrate to Win10. Furthermore, as MS are planning to end Win7 support at the end of 2019 I have decided the best way forward for me is to migrate to Linux.
I realise the difficulties in porting EasyPC onto Linux, however I'm sure NumberOne people will realise the predicament that many people such as myself are in. I realise that Windows emulation software such as Wine is available, however it seems that there are some compatibility issues such as with fonts as mentioned by people previously. Perhaps one way forward would be for NumberOne to take Wine on board as a fully supported platform for EasyPC, and therefore iron out any issues as they are found. I for one would be happy with such an option. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 17:01:37
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quote:
Originally posted by s.dickinson
Hello
Having had a number of years break from using EasyPC (using Eagle) I am now considering my options for the future. I previously liked using EasyPC and I have always found NumberOne to be a good straightforward company to deal with. The V20 demo looks good and following a productive discussion on the phone last week with Fiona I am sure it would meet my needs - all in all I would like to move back to using EasyPC. However, as previous people have mentioned, I do not like the direction which Microsoft are taking windows. I briefly migrated from Win7 (which I was perfectly happy with) to Win8, however having found this a total disappointment I soon ditched that and moved back to Win7. Following news of MS moving to a subscription model I now have absolutely no intension to migrate to Win10. Furthermore, as MS are planning to end Win7 support at the end of 2019 I have decided the best way forward for me is to migrate to Linux.
I realise the difficulties in porting EasyPC onto Linux, however I'm sure NumberOne people will realise the predicament that many people such as myself are in. I realise that Windows emulation software such as Wine is available, however it seems that there are some compatibility issues such as with fonts as mentioned by people previously. Perhaps one way forward would be for NumberOne to take Wine on board as a fully supported platform for EasyPC, and therefore iron out any issues as they are found. I for one would be happy with such an option.
Hi,
I referred to a possible subscription model for Windows 10, and that Microsoft may force everyone to provide applications using their apps store - hence take a cut. I do not know whether Microsoft are definitely going to move to a subscription model for Windows 10. f you do, can you provide a link - i assume you are referring to non Enterprise version of Windows 10 ?
I have had too many issues with Wine and Easy-PC, so i am using Linux with Virtual Box installed and running a Windows 8.1 VM - works great - minor issues at the moment.
Eagle have moved to the subscription model - for new licences - and as such no upgrade for many unless you migrate to a subscription. In addition - looking at the comments regarding the licence for Eagle - the software vendors can upload your design - last time i read - to be confirmed.
I thought that Windows 7 support ended in January 2015 :
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet
Unless you pay for extended support - possibly only security updates at the moment.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2017 : 17:23:21
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| My understanding on Windows 10 is that Microsoft will be making continual updates to the O/S rather than working for 3 years then releasing Windows 11, hence the stories about "this is the last Windows version". I have also seen nothing that makes me think that any subscription model will be introduced for any Windows edition other than Enterprise, so using Home or Pro editions should be safe. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 10 Apr 2017 : 15:00:12
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quote:
Originally posted by DavidM
My understanding on Windows 10 is that Microsoft will be making continual updates to the O/S rather than working for 3 years then releasing Windows 11, hence the stories about "this is the last Windows version". I have also seen nothing that makes me think that any subscription model will be introduced for any Windows edition other than Enterprise, so using Home or Pro editions should be safe.
Hi,
I expect that the free version will not last ad infinitum. The usual corporate approach to increase revenue greater than inflation, and the desire for people within a company to create their own reward by increasing said revenue, will take over.
The data that Microsoft are selling to other organisations will not be a permanent revenue stream at the levels required for their business. So the next major upgrade or step change may incur a charge, or a subscription model may be applied. Or previously free features may be purchase based features - as they have already implemented this for free games ?
The UWP is a concern - Microsoft may deprecate specific aspects of their OS without warning - forcing developers down a specific route.
Essentially, Microsoft will implement a walled garden, albeit very slowly.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2018 : 15:37:52
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Hi,
With version 3 of Wine, i thought i would give Easy-PC another try on Wine. Still getting crash issues of the program crashing on forward design changes.
Using a VM solves this issue but a 3 year old laptop has an upper memory limit due to the BIOS, so the machines does slow for other tasks when implementing the VM (even when paused).
I checked out Design Spark as someone has written some hints on getting Design Spark working on Wine - but this does not work.
Another option is Design Spark for Linux and has been requested :
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/design-spark-on-linux
This request has only 7 up votes.
Can Number One therefore provide feedback on whether you have been asked to investigate whether Easy-PC can be implemented on Linux - i understand that this would be a complete code rewite - but RS would be a sponsor - so you may be considering it.
Easy-PC is the last CAD software that i have to use a VM for - all others are available on Linux or run under Wine.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
106 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2018 : 20:28:27
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Hi Shadders,
that's odd. I have been using Kubuntu 14.04 with Wine, currently at V1.6.2 so ancient.
I use Windows XP as my version and am generally happy with that. What Windows version are you using? I will be upgrading to Kubuntu 18.04 soon so will report on how EZ-PC works with that setup. I sincerely hope it is at least no worse than my present one.
Anyone tried installing EZ-PC with CrossOver, currently at version 17.5 which might be better than plain Wine?
John
John |
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 10:14:02
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Regarding the crash when forwarding design changes, are you using the dual screen option?
The reason for asking is that dual screen mode runs two copies of the program. When interaction between schematic and pcb is needed (integrity check, forward changes, cross probe, etc.) they communicate using Windows pipes. Aside from the fact that these malfunction at random under Windows, there's also the issue of how well this is supported by Wine.
Assuming that dual screen mode is in use, it might be worth reverting to single screen mode to see if the behaviour improves. |
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 10:34:40
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| Regarding the problems with DRC checking, has anyone considered that the problem might lie with compatibility between Wine and the Easy-PC reports browser? There's an easy way to check this. If you go to [Settings], [Preferences] and look at the 'General' tab, in the second column there's an option to 'View Reports in Report Browser'. Uncheck this, and Easy-PC will output .txt files which will open with whatever the linked text editor happens to be. That might be all that's needed to avoid this issue. Feedback here, please. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 10:34:48
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quote:
Originally posted by jlawton
Hi Shadders,
that's odd. I have been using Kubuntu 14.04 with Wine, currently at V1.6.2 so ancient.
I use Windows XP as my version and am generally happy with that. What Windows version are you using? I will be upgrading to Kubuntu 18.04 soon so will report on how EZ-PC works with that setup. I sincerely hope it is at least no worse than my present one.
Anyone tried installing EZ-PC with CrossOver, currently at version 17.5 which might be better than plain Wine?
John
John
Hi John,
Thanks for the reply. I will check out Crossover to see if it can be used on my Fedora installation. I use KDE - my preference.
I think the issue may be that i have installed 64bit Wine and Easy-PC uses 32bit libraries etc. I will respond to Peter too.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 10:45:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Johnson
Regarding the crash when forwarding design changes, are you using the dual screen option?
The reason for asking is that dual screen mode runs two copies of the program. When interaction between schematic and pcb is needed (integrity check, forward changes, cross probe, etc.) they communicate using Windows pipes. Aside from the fact that these malfunction at random under Windows, there's also the issue of how well this is supported by Wine.
Assuming that dual screen mode is in use, it might be worth reverting to single screen mode to see if the behaviour improves.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the replies.
I am using Wine but it is the 64bit. The crash reports a 32bit memory issue where the initial start of the error report is :
Unhandled exception: page fault on write access to 0x00000000 in 32-bit code (0x1c10f797).
Register dump:
I am not using a dual screen. For me to progress - i would have to remove the Wine 64bit version and install the 32bit version, but i already have other programs running under the 64bit version. So i am reluctant to do this.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 10:51:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Johnson
Regarding the problems with DRC checking, has anyone considered that the problem might lie with compatibility between Wine and the Easy-PC reports browser? There's an easy way to check this. If you go to [Settings], [Preferences] and look at the 'General' tab, in the second column there's an option to 'View Reports in Report Browser'. Uncheck this, and Easy-PC will output .txt files which will open with whatever the linked text editor happens to be. That might be all that's needed to avoid this issue. Feedback here, please.
Hi Peter,
Thanks for the reply. Yes that has resolved, by not using the report browser, allows the report to open in notepad. Thanks.
I noticed that the error using the report browser is reporting 32bit caused page fault - so, i assume that Easy-PC uses many DLL's etc that are 32bit as opposed to 64bit ? or is the code compiled for 32bit target OS ?
Thanks and regards,
Shadders. |
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 11:32:35
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No, Easy-PC is an entirely 32 bit application. When it was originally written (in 1998), 64 bit processors and operating systems bore a strong resemblance to hen's teeth, so 32 bit was the obvious choice. As time progressed, the support for 32 bit legacy programs was always so good that the extra investment in producing a 64 bit version, both In initial development and ongoing parallel maintenance, just couldn't be justified, so we are where we are today.
I'm no Linux guru, so I've no idea whether it's possible to simultaneously have 32 and 64 bit versions of Wine on the same system, but if it is, could this offer a possible solution? Under Windows, it might be as simple as renaming the executable, but not knowing about Linux, this might not be a viable approach. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2018 : 12:37:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Johnson
No, Easy-PC is an entirely 32 bit application. When it was originally written (in 1998), 64 bit processors and operating systems bore a strong resemblance to hen's teeth, so 32 bit was the obvious choice. As time progressed, the support for 32 bit legacy programs was always so good that the extra investment in producing a 64 bit version, both In initial development and ongoing parallel maintenance, just couldn't be justified, so we are where we are today.
I'm no Linux guru, so I've no idea whether it's possible to simultaneously have 32 and 64 bit versions of Wine on the same system, but if it is, could this offer a possible solution? Under Windows, it might be as simple as renaming the executable, but not knowing about Linux, this might not be a viable approach.
Hi Peter,
Thanks. I assume that Number One will not begin to move to a pure 64bit application in the future ??? and will remain as a 32bit application ?
I have checked Wine, and the system either installs as 32bit prefix or 64bit prefix, but not both. Their FAQ is not really that helpful.
One application i need to run is LTSpice XVII which is 64bit only, so if i install the 32bit prefix, this program will not install under 32bit prefix.
Thanks and regards,
Shadders. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 13:19:17
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Hi,
As an update for Easy-PC on Linux :
https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/design-spark-on-linux
Some support for DesignSpark on Linux - comments are recent.
Not sure if there is any discussion with RS for a DesignSpark package on Linux, but Farnell actively promote Eagle, which runs on both Windows and Linux. Maybe RS would fund if they want to counter Farnell ?
Regards,
Shadders. |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 15:59:08
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Your desire for a Linux version is heard, but is certainly not on our roadmap for Easy-PC.
I can't speak directly for RS, but as far as I am aware it doesn't figure in their plans either. That's not to say it never will, but given that it would require significant effort to re-engineer the application just to get it back to the state its in now, its hard to see how that could stack up commercially for either product.
David. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 16:20:53
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Whilst sympathetic to the Linux users interest, I must admit that I feel somewhat relieved that support for a Linux version of EasyPC isn't currently on NumberOne's "roadmap".
Regardless of the commercial viability of producing a Linux version, I cannot help but feel that if a Linux EasyPC product was developed then the excellent support we receive would inevitably be diluted. Windows certainly isn't perfect, but it does do an awful lot very well,- which satisfies a great many of us. Not too sure of the impending costs associated with Windows 10 though....... I'm likely to stay with Win7/64 Pro for many more years. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 18:57:17
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Hi DavidM,
Thanks for the update - an update is better than no update.
Hi Edrees,
I was not sure about running Easy-PC for Win7/64 Pro since it is not supported by Number One, so i use Windows 8.1 in a VM.
What is going to happen with Windows 10 - just do not know - lots of complaints with every upgrade, and i am not sure that it will remain free - I can see that the drive for more profit may mean a subscription, or force programs to UWP, so Microsoft can receive a percentage.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
106 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2018 : 22:21:21
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You've been reading:
https://www.numberone.com/resources#sysreq
which ominously states EZ-PC is only officially supported until June 2017.
Personally I don't see the point of 'upgrading' from my copy of Win 7 to Win 8 or Win 8.1 as I dislike the tiles interface and hope to avoid Win 10 altogether, so I really hope WestDev keep it running on Win 7 for a good time yet.
Eventually the trickle of defectors from Windows 10 to Linux may become a stream, as Win 10 becomes even more of a pain, so that may affect their thinking on the matter in the future.
I have previously suggested that more effort into improving compatibility with Wine may be the best approach for now.
John |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2018 : 08:50:26
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Our official support for Win 7 has indeed ceased, but effectively this means that if a problem is encountered that is reproducible on Win 7 and not on later (supported) editions then we may not be able to do anything about it. That doesn't mean we won't, it just sets the appropriate expectation. As with all businesses we have to work out where best to use our finite resources.
As for whether future versions of Easy-PC will continue to work on unsupported editions of Windows, we don't currently foresee the need to incorporate or use any technologies in the application that would preclude this.
David.
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
489 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2018 : 10:55:12
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As a footnote to David's comments, Easy-PC still works on XP, with only one minor issue of some icons not displaying their images. I'm not aware of any current issues affecting Vista or Win7.
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jlawton
United Kingdom
106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Aug 2018 : 20:57:08
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quote:
Originally posted by edrees
Whilst sympathetic to the Linux users interest, I must admit that I feel somewhat relieved that support for a Linux version of EasyPC isn't currently on NumberOne's "roadmap".
Regardless of the commercial viability of producing a Linux version, I cannot help but feel that if a Linux EasyPC product was developed then the excellent support we receive would inevitably be diluted. Windows certainly isn't perfect, but it does do an awful lot very well,- which satisfies a great many of us. Not too sure of the impending costs associated with Windows 10 though....... I'm likely to stay with Win7/64 Pro for many more years.
If you do then you will stop receiving security updates in January 2020, which isn't so long away.
Back on topic of Linux & Wine, I tried installing EZ-PC V22 today and the installer took a long time. Then the program then wouldn't run so that's very bad news for me as a long time Linux+Wine user. I re-installed V21 with no problems. I wonder what has happened here?
John |
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edrees
United Kingdom
766 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2018 : 11:39:27
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Hi John,
quote:
If you do then you will stop receiving security updates in January 2020, which isn't so long away.
This sounds similar to all the recent Brexit scaremongery going on!
"We're all doomed Captain Mainwaring!" |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
106 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2018 : 10:21:27
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quote:
Originally posted by edrees
Hi John,
quote:
If you do then you will stop receiving security updates in January 2020, which isn't so long away.
This sounds similar to all the recent Brexit scaremongery going on!
"We're all doomed Captain Mainwaring!"
Don't panic!
The Kubuntu & Wine installation I was using when I tried to upgrade to V22 was getting old so I have now migrated to the latest version 18.04. I was then able to install and run V22, I think the issue might have been the use of .NET code requiring Mono to be installed, but I am now using a fully up-to-date version of Wine which seems to cope with installing V22.
John
John |
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martinb
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2018 : 13:20:05
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I've been a user of Easy-PC right from the DOS version back in the 90s and have always found it does what I need. The support Peter gives has been very much appreciated several times!
Having moved across to Linux around 10 years ago (currently using xubuntu 18.04), I kept an old WinXP machine running in a virtualbox environment just to use with Easy-PC and until V22 that has worked well. Something changed in V22 though and it would no longer run on XP. I was not terribly surprised, in fact, I was more surprised it had been supported for so long!
I was reluctantly trying to resign myself to moving to a different, native linux EDA package when Peter mentioned that Easy-PC had been used successfully on WINE. I've never had much success with WINE but I thought I'd give it a go, albeit using PlayOnLinux, and to my surprise, I'm pleased to say it installed easily and works!
I've seen a couple of oddities but I can work around them, not seen any show stoppers yet.  |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2019 : 13:11:09
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Hi,
It seems that Wine of Ubuntu will have support issues.
https://www.linuxuprising.com/2019/06/wine-developers-concerned-with-ubuntu.html
I implemented PlayOnLinux installed Easy-PC using a 32bit installation and Wine 4.10 Staging. The forward design changes which failed before works, as does the html report for design rules check.
Does anyone have any specific installation requirements such as specific components (MFC4.0 etc) or wine version that should be used to ensure stability ?
Thanks and regards,
Shadders. |
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nigelwright7557
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2019 : 01:38:11
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I don't understand the objections to Windows 10.
I haven't had any driver problems.
The usual install problems are not installing .net framework first or not installing as administrator.
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Peter Johnson
United Kingdom
489 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2019 : 09:41:22
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The biggest issue here is that in order to investigate any problems running under Wine, we need very detailed reporting of what's happening so that we can reproduce it. There's the additional issue that there's no guarantee that any of our current debugging software would be able to operate in this environment, which potentially presents another obstacle. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know the full implications, but finding and fixing issues with running under Wine is unlikely to be trivial.
(That's not to say it won't happen, but as mentioned above, there are potential economic problems as well, which I'm not in a position to address). |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2019 : 15:13:22
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quote:
Originally posted by nigelwright7557
I don't understand the objections to Windows 10.
I haven't had any driver problems.
The usual install problems are not installing .net framework first or not installing as administrator.
Hi,
The recurring problems of Windows 10 as an OS, reinstalling every half year, and the telemetry, are issues that some people would rather not have to deal with. The user interface - flat screen and non-3D effect is not something i like. So many people use Linux, which has various desktop environments such as Gnome or KDE etc.
You have a lot more control over the OS with Linux than you do with Windows 10.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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shadders
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 01 Aug 2019 : 15:23:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Peter Johnson
The biggest issue here is that in order to investigate any problems running under Wine, we need very detailed reporting of what's happening so that we can reproduce it. There's the additional issue that there's no guarantee that any of our current debugging software would be able to operate in this environment, which potentially presents another obstacle. I'm not a programmer, so I don't know the full implications, but finding and fixing issues with running under Wine is unlikely to be trivial.
(That's not to say it won't happen, but as mentioned above, there are potential economic problems as well, which I'm not in a position to address).
Hi,
Running WINE will provide an error report when there is a problem. What would be helpful is a list of the "install components" that must be added to the WINE implementation :
https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/213438565-How-to-install-DesignSpark-PCB-on-Linux-with-Wine-
Any validation of the above would be helpful, even though the implementation cannot be officially supported.
Regards,
Shadders. |
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nigelwright7557
United Kingdom
9 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2019 : 15:19:58
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I don't understand the reluctance to move on to Windows 10.
I have used it since it came out.
While it had its teething problems it is mostly solid now.
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Easy-pc and Linux