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KevL
United Kingdom
78 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jul 2014 : 18:21:57
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Isn't this due out soon?
Any hints as to what it might contain?
K |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jul 2014 : 19:15:48
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Apparently due out the end of this month.
Iain
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toni9999
United Kingdom
39 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2014 : 10:43:08
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| That is what i have been told as well |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2014 : 11:02:46
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| V18 has been issued today. If you start at the home page you will find information about the new features. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2014 : 11:15:01
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At last the promise of
1) a decent BOM feature and
2) the IPC356 netlister.
Still no import Bitmap feature for pcbs, and the "rest" will probably just give rise to even more unused features and deeply hidden switches in Preferences/Options to disable them.
Upgrade got to be worth it just for 1) & 2 ) only! |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2014 : 11:56:50
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BOM composer
So why does the Names (of Designators) appear in "random" order?
Even example in help file shows,-
R100, R78, R84, R96
R31, R27, R34, R71, R61-62, R58, R43-44, R39,R54 etc.
where's the "collate by ascending designator" field please? |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 13:12:12
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Couple of other V18 issues observations,-
1) Fill In Component shapes, - only 1 filled in shape will be filled in. I have a dual (common cathode) LED for example, and only 1 triangle is filled in.
2) Still no ability to edit (Add >Cutout") component silk screen in the pcb editor.
I'll upgrade!
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rvpilot
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 18:49:43
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quote:
1) Fill In Component shapes, - only 1 filled in shape will be filled in. I have a dual (common cathode) LED for example, and only 1 triangle is filled in.
I get the same with IC's that I have put circles on input to represent inverted logic. The first closed shape gets filled and the rest in the symbol are not !
Suggestion : May have been easier to implement if the shape property, when checking 'filled', allowed you to select a fill colour or set to <global> to use the display setting colour. That would mean that each closed and filled shape in a symbol could have been fully customised and complex symbols would be a doddle. |
Edited by - rvpilot on 24 Jul 2014 18:55:55 |
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rvpilot
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 20:30:27
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| After playing with the BOM Composer, I find it a bit buggy with orderings in 'Append to Value' dialog not being stored and used, plus I now get an 'An error occurred during this operation' when trying to print the BOM. |
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DavidM
United Kingdom
458 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 08:26:53
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| If you are finding specific faults, then reporting them (with data and instructions) directly to our support mailbox will help us to help you. That way we can work together to remove any issues that have not shown up in our pre-release testing. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 09:01:56
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I've copied and pasted the above issues and emailed them to Support.
How can such basic things get missed in "pre-release testing"?
Time would have been better spent on more "pre-release testing" than adding even more ways of doing the most simple of tasks, and other un-requested features.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 09:48:02
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Ed, I am not biased in any way, but I do think you are a bit harsh. I have been at the programming side of things and can fully understand these problems. And I think the way Numberone handle these is second to none (if you report direct to them).
Just yesterday I had a conversation with a business that uses Solidworks and pay an annual fee of thousands of pounds. On one of their releases it was discovered there was a measurement fault (pretty basic requirement from that type of package), they reported this and asked when it would be put right, the answer, "difficult to say, we will put it on the to do list and it will be looked at sometime".
All developers will have these bugs in releases, it's how they tackle them from the customers point of view that counts.
Iain |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 10:12:07
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Sorry, Iain, I disagree with your suggestion that I'm being harsh, -others may have their say in this matter on this Forum and I'm prepared to stand corrected. Every year we see this issue arise.
When you have added a feature such as the schematic component fill, surely it should have been tested on more than just a simple rectangular box? Or did the Tester not see the problem? An improved method of creating BOMs has been requested for many years and it's still not right, -my old "script" does a better job than the new BOM composer.
I agree that sometimes there can be "unexpected interaction" when something unrelated has been upgraded, and I can sympathize with the Developers when a million and one combinations have to be checked out to make sure everything is fine. I do write software too!
No1 Support is indeed first class, and EasyPC is exceptional for the money too-that's why I've upgraded. |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 13:52:35
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V18 Component Fill
If you print a schematic PDF in colour, guess what? The boxes appear with no fill colour. Brilliant!
These are not bugs, -just sloppy programming.
How much "pre-testing" was done again? |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 17:37:03
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Ed, your going about this the wrong way. Email these problems direct to Numberone for immediate attention. The forum is more for helping each other out rather than reporting obvious bugs.
I found two problems in v18 this morning, both have now been addressed and fixed.
Iain |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 18:19:24
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Iain, -I did.
The Developers have acknowledged that "more work is essential" and are working on the problems.
V18 was released in haste, without adequate testing, end of.
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2014 : 21:11:39
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Ed, you and I must have a pint sometime. This has the makings of a great pub debate
Cheers
Iain |
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rvpilot
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jul 2014 : 13:47:03
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I have logged a number of bugs regarding v18, but I do agree with edrees, this is yet another release where obvious bugs are present in new features. I too am a firmware (embedded systems) and software (pc applications) programmer and there are ways of validating new features and changes which would have caught these before release. The coverage of testing that takes place is not nearly enough.
Do NumbeOneSystem put pre-releases out to existing 'power' users for beta testing prior to release ? I personally would quite happily run it for a month prior to formal release and thoroughly test all the new features if it would help reduce these negative comments EVERY time a new version is released !
PS Lovin' the net name labels in the PCB editor :-) |
Edited by - rvpilot on 27 Jul 2014 13:48:28 |
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2014 : 17:10:47
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Simon, it would be reasonable to receive a free update for this service, or something like a 10% discount for every bug you find!
Seriously, unless No1 get their act together before they "release" major upgrades, they will loose business, so providing a discounted upgrade path as an incentive to Beta testers could be their best bet! Their in house developers certainly can't/ won't do the job properly, or possibly the powers to be (Financial) insisted that V18 must be released ASAP to generate cashflow. |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
107 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 10:44:36
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I agree additional Beta testing would be helpful and I'd be happy to be a tester.
If you are concerned over possible bugs anomalies then wait a while after a new release for them to be fixed. Possibly some individual users might have unstable Windows installations which doesn't help. FWIW I have found V17 to be pretty reliable.
John Lawton Electronics |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 12:48:33
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I have a Surface Pro, back in Feb or March Microsoft issued a firmware update for this. It was so bad they had to pull it and re-instate the previous version as it reaped havoc !
So even Microsoft can't get it right !!
Iain
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edrees
United Kingdom
768 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 13:26:45
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Iain, quoting Microsoft's performance is hardly a "standard" to judge other organisations upon. I believe it's because of Microsoft's poor performance that programmers have become so complacent,-
"If Microsoft can get away with it, -so can we".
"It compiles, -therefore it MUST be OK".
Apart from the usual EMC/CE approvals, on certain Projects I have to provide the Customer with a formal "Acceptance Testing Certification" that demonstrates that I have tested the Product against the Customer's product design requirements, and then finally provide a "Declaration of Conformity", i.e. it REALLY must do what it says on the tin before I get paid! |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jul 2014 : 16:37:07
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Ed,
My point is Microsofts resources are limitless compared to others.
I work differently .... the product is tested and verified as ok by the customer as part as the product development. Any changes, errors or omissions and taken on board as part of the development. The customer takes ultimate responsibility in signing off the project.
After that even if problems are found, these are accepted as part of the project and put right immediately.
Iain
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Edited by - Iain Wilkie on 30 Jul 2014 09:20:44 |
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R.Redding
United Kingdom
18 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 15:38:45
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I'm still hoping that Panelling ( introduced in V15 ) can be made to work.
I still have the same errors in v16 and v17 as I have in v15 when I reported them.
But as Eagle is working fine...I can still wait.
Rob
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 16:20:41
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Rob,
Is it not easier just to get your PCB manufacturer to do the panelling for you ?
I have to admit I have never used it.
Iain |
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jlawton
United Kingdom
107 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 17:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Iain Wilkie
Rob,
Is it not easier just to get your PCB manufacturer to do the panelling for you ?
I have to admit I have never used it.
Iain
Neither have I, having always assumed the pcb manufacturer will have their own way of doing it. Even if you panellise yourself they may edit it unless you tell them not to.
John Lawton Electronics |
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Mike Warren
Australia
121 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 21:11:51
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I've been asked to panelise a couple of times, but the main thing I use it for is small volume hand made projects and prototypes. We use a company that has 2 standard panel sizes with fixed prices no matter what is put on them, so I'll put several different prototypes on a panel.
http://mike-warren.net |
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Iain Wilkie
United Kingdom
1011 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 22:00:55
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Yup, unless you go to folks like pcb train that share a panel to keep costs down, just ask your manufacturer how many boards you can have on a panel, the cost of the panel is the same .... So unless they charge for numbers of holes etc the cost is generally the same.
Iain |
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Version 18